tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post2951986990828867551..comments2024-03-22T00:35:19.082-07:00Comments on Casual Kitchen: On the Merits of StockDanielhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-85352959339488731392016-03-09T10:54:45.992-08:002016-03-09T10:54:45.992-08:00Jim, more power to you. If I see anything that I t...Jim, more power to you. If I see anything that I think might be helpful to you, I'll be sure to share it here!<br /><br />DKDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-15000336511146836512016-03-09T10:36:25.464-08:002016-03-09T10:36:25.464-08:00Daniel, I don't seek because I have to, I do s...Daniel, I don't seek because I have to, I do so because I want to, and I don't worry about it - I am intrigued by it. I agree that it's cool you can make such great stuff without really trying, but love turning things inside out - when I was a kid I figured out I could reverse the electromagnet (didn't even know what it was) on our family TV/record player combo and listen to the White Album backwards! :) <br /><br />I'm glad you guys are happy with the simple fact that it works, but I get bored easily, have great appreciation for detail, and particularly enjoy learning everything I can about something, so if you have any clue where to suggest I look for this info, I'd greatly appreciate it!Jim Cunninghamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-83190463692810511752016-03-02T19:21:57.417-08:002016-03-02T19:21:57.417-08:00Jim seems to misunderstand what topics get scienti...Jim seems to misunderstand what topics get scientific study. LOL<br /><br />I have been making stock for years with the carcass of smoked turkeys from Greenberg's, which we get for the holidays. All I add to the covering water is a couple of bay leaves. I typically simmer for 8-10 hours, cool, strain, refrigerate or freeze. Also, I usually pick out another half-cup to cup of meat, which is too good not to go after.<br /><br />When I want to make stock and it's not turkey season, chicken carcasses will do just fine.chacha1http://www.ombailamos.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-37853246051769779842016-03-02T12:31:12.439-08:002016-03-02T12:31:12.439-08:00Jim, what you're asking for is intriguing, but...Jim, what you're asking for is intriguing, but well beyond the scope of this blog. <br /><br />I'd say one of the nice things about using homemade stock is <i>it just works.</i> And you simply don't have to seek--or even worry about--precise answers to the kinds of questions you're asking. Good luck to you!<br /><br />DKDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-62893504996901766862016-03-02T12:22:48.176-08:002016-03-02T12:22:48.176-08:00I've been trying (off and on) for YEARS to get...I've been trying (off and on) for YEARS to get some good, scientific data on chicken/veggie stock making and when different things REALLY hit a point of no return and begin to break down. <br /><br />All I ever get is "my momma told me" or "my teacher told me", but I can't seem to find the "scientist chef" that can unequivocally break down (pardon the pun!) the actual *scientific* do's and don'ts:<br /> <br />It seems that collagen rich parts of chicken like feet and necks are best simmered for 30-36 hours - and I MEAN simmered - I cook mine so there are literally no bubbles, only the slight shimmering of the liquid and steam noticeable only when stirring; the rest of the "marrow" bones best broken and simmered for up to 24 hours. <br /><br />They do turn to mush well before the feet are done, but can they remain in, or do you need to remove and only continue with the feet separately, or risk destroying the first-done bone portion of the stock with the extended cooking.<br /><br />Same with adding the veggies - should they be cooked separately and then mixed in at the end?<br /><br />And skin - I keep reading that the skin has no appreciable value and especially compared to the fat content, but I suspect both are wrong - this type of fat is probably really good for you, it adds great flavor and ANY additional collagen is appreciated, so is it really a win/win keeping the skin in?<br /><br />I think they're wrong on "bad cholesterol, too, IMHO, as your body simply would not have something that is "bad" for you as part of its normal functioning - the "bad" effects attributed to cholesterol actually has to do with the viscosity of the blood vessel walls, not the cholesterol passing through.<br /> <br />I repeatedly see that veggies only should be cooked for 2 hours, but each article also says that at that point, the carrots will be mush - not MINE, and again, and the carrots are still fairly stiff 8+ hours later.<br /> <br />I save and freeze (in addition to all chicken carcasses) all carrot ends, garlic butts, onion skins - literally every unused piece of vegetable matter not used in whatever I'm making for any meal - but I've read that freezing these things causes them to breakdown and are of no use after "x" amount of time. <br /><br />I also make huge amounts of both stock and soup and similarly have read that both of them also breakdown in the freezer - if so, WHEN and to what degree? Only a little may still make it worthwhile to get many weeks worth done at the same time.<br /><br />What about bringing the stock or soup (especially the stock) to a boil and for how long before it causes damage? It seems to me that a "pre-boil" draws something out not otherwise attained with just low temp cooking, but surely has a "point of no return"; at least with the stock. And if so, are the diminishing return points for flavor and nutritional value the same or not?<br /><br />My soup, even though made in big batches, if eating alone I tend to, after the initial cooking, heat only enough for my meal so I don't destroy it with repeated heating, so that is not a consideration in how much I can cook it up front - my veggies are fresh and crisp looking and tasting, accordingly.<br /><br />ANYWAY, if someone has ONLY SCIENTIFIC DATA on these and other factors involved in stock/soup making, I'd love to see it - I'm sure your momma and your teacher were/are really knowledgeable, but those opinions are NOT what I'm after!!<br /><br />There are probably other relevant questions not occurring to me now, as it's easily been a year since I've thought about it. <br /><br />Thanks in advance.Jim Cunninghamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-30711231561026053372016-03-02T11:56:27.024-08:002016-03-02T11:56:27.024-08:00I've been trying (off and on) for YEARS to get...I've been trying (off and on) for YEARS to get some good, scientific data on chicken/veggie stock making and when different things REALLY hit a point of no return and begin to break down. <br />All I ever get is "my momma told me" or "my teacher told me", but I can't seem to find the "scientist chef" that can unequivocally breakdown the actual *scientific* do's and don'ts: <br />It seems that collagen rich parts of chicken like feet and necks are best simmered for 30-36 hours - and I MEAN simmered - I cook mine so there are literally no bubbles, only the slight shimmering of the liquid and steam noticeable only when stirring; the rest of the "marrow" bones best broken and simmered for up to 24 hours (they do turn to mush well before the feet are done, but can they remain in, or do you need to remove and only continue with the feet or rick destroying the first-done bones with the extended cooking. <br />I repeatedly see that veggies only should be cooked for 2 hours, but each article also says that at that point, the carrots will be mush - not MINE, and again, I simmer really low, but even 12 hours later, there is still life in the veggies. <br />I save all carrot ends, garlic butts, onion skins - literally every unused piece of vegetable matter not used in whatever I'm making for any meal - but I've read that freezing these things causes them to breakdown and are of no use after "x" amount of time. <br />I also make huge amounts of both stock and soup and similarly have read that both of them also breakdown in the freezer - if so, WHEN?<br />ANYWAY, if someone has ONLY SCIENTIFIC data on these and other factors involved in stock/soup making, I'd love to see it - I'm sure your momma and your teacher were/are really knowledgeable, but those opinions are NOT what I'm after!! <br />Thanks in advance.Jim Cunninghamnoreply@blogger.com