tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post5118977997257121683..comments2024-03-22T00:35:19.082-07:00Comments on Casual Kitchen: Don't Fall Victim to False Logic With the Food IndustryDanielhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-40304323079852724402010-03-22T19:38:31.203-07:002010-03-22T19:38:31.203-07:00I have to say that I agree with most of what you&#...I have to say that I agree with most of what you've said. I consider it my duty to cook healthy meals, and shop with my values.<br /><br />I want everyone to have access to fresh fruits and vegetables. So I buy mine at the farmer's market to encourage them to remain affordable for everyone else.<br /><br />It's tough though. A lot of people just aren't interested in eating healthfully, reading labels, or thinking about their source of food. Even some of my relatively informed relatives fall into that category. So...I guess that's how it is.Marciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984899661746845414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-28097639011747903902010-03-22T14:47:08.661-07:002010-03-22T14:47:08.661-07:00Excellent post. I am anti-regulation and pro-power...Excellent post. I am anti-regulation and pro-power to the people.<br /><br />Seems to me the people who love regulations are the same ones who won't lift a finger to help themselves or support their cause. <br /><br />My cause at the moment is eliminating my plastic container waste. Bought aluminum water bottles and asked my husband to just say no ...<br /><br />These steps like this really add up. Thanks for the topic.<br /><br />VivecaViveca from FatigueBeGonehttp://www.adrenalfatiguebegone.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-75159247406105112522010-03-21T22:35:03.471-07:002010-03-21T22:35:03.471-07:00Dan--thank you so much for bringing this whole iss...Dan--thank you so much for bringing this whole issue up. It's made me realize that folks find motivation in completely different ways. You mentioned that you find labeling food companies evil to be disempowering, whereas I find it a call to action. It never occurred to me that some would find it as anything else. Such an eye opener.ConsciouslyFrugalhttp://consciouslyfrugal.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-62622320087451913562010-03-21T22:28:49.342-07:002010-03-21T22:28:49.342-07:00Again, Consciously Frugal wrote exactly what I was...Again, Consciously Frugal wrote exactly what I was thinking. (What a fantastic writer - I'm going to read that person's blog.) I don't think that it's either/or. You can make good choices for yourself and still complain about the food industry. And I don't think putting people down as whiners helps anyone very much. But then, this blog is not about helping anyone, is it...Christinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-67363134356014803142010-03-21T11:37:24.987-07:002010-03-21T11:37:24.987-07:00Thanks for the insights ConsciouslyFrugal!
I hear...Thanks for the insights ConsciouslyFrugal!<br /><br />I hear you. My point was to get people to stop complaining and get active. And my point about this particular logic error is that many people, rather than getting active, simply engage in <em>complaining by proxy:</em> citing less fortunate people, powerless schoolkids who get exploited by Sysco, those living in food deserts, etc., as evidence that nothing can be done. <br /><br />That kind of thinking is effete and unproductive. The vast majority of my readers are quite capable of taking effective action. And if my readers become active, and encourage others to do so too, we can help everybody get a food industry that does its job better. <br /><br />DKDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-48357869337957497082010-03-21T10:05:16.693-07:002010-03-21T10:05:16.693-07:00Well, I would add this note of disagreement. You s...Well, I would add this note of disagreement. You said, "Don't generalize from the exceptions and let that trick you into missing the point of the post."<br /><br />I would argue, then, that you shouldn't generalize from the anomalies and let that trick you into solving a complex issue with bootstraps ideology or negating the validity of the argument. I call this The Oprah Effect (no, this is not about megalomania. bwhahahaha), which is it's own form of a false syllogism (actually, it's a hasty generalization fallacy):<br /><br />1. Oprah was raised in profound poverty.<br /><br />2. Oprah became the wealthiest and most powerful woman in media.<br /><br />3. Therefore, all people raised in poverty will become uber rich and powerful.<br /><br />It's the My Personal Experience is Universal Truth myth. Although "the American Dream" and magical thinking do support the notion that everyone can make it big, it's not an economic reality. Our current system cannot sustain masses of poor becoming wealthy, given that most wealth is built upon poverty structures. But that's a whole other argument.<br /><br />What I see you doing is taking anomalies and then generalizing from them. If A can do it, so can B. Well, yes, in theory. But life doesn't really happen in theory and turning the anomaly into a standard by which all can and should adhere is...well, generally the method by which bootstraps ideologists negate any responsibility to the collective. It works in the theoretical but is deeply damaging in practice.<br /><br />Having said that--I get what you're saying. Even the mother working 2 shitty jobs can toss in some frozen veggies. But is that really the sole solution we want to go for in this debate? <br /><br />Does the fact that personal choice exists in the face of a system that is, on virtually every single level (no safe place to play, food deserts, unknown food content, GMOs, false advertising, blah blah blah), set up to make good choices a monolithic hurdle actually affirm your position of "the worst lie in the blogosphere?" Really? <br /><br />It's the black and white thinking and the bootstraps ideology of your assertion that irk me. I'm not saying that your assertion of all folks have choices isn't true, because it is. But to equate the opportunity for choice, particularly when the choices available are vastly different, somehow negates the argument the food industry is evil just doesn't cut it. Both are true--one doesn't negate the other. The food industry is evil and we have choices. I, of course, would hope that we would fight the systemic issues while making better choices for ourselves.ConsciouslyFrugalhttp://consciouslyfrugal.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-70593030780109440842010-03-21T09:43:59.481-07:002010-03-21T09:43:59.481-07:00Cheryl, thanks for your input, I'm always happ...Cheryl, thanks for your input, I'm always happy to support organizations like this. And thank you for writing that post, it's inspiring.<br /><br />DKDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-64676069556270863972010-03-21T09:41:28.021-07:002010-03-21T09:41:28.021-07:00Anon: thanks for your comment. I don't know--...Anon: thanks for your comment. I don't know--to me, that kind of thinking from your roommates is just standard excuse making. <br /><br />Why bother to figure out something when there's such a convenient excuse available? [Once again, let's say it with feeling: <em>Food companies are evil!</em>] The fact that it's a disempowering excuse isn't a concern I guess.<br /><br />DKDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-50652629002576895532010-03-21T09:38:03.050-07:002010-03-21T09:38:03.050-07:00Hi Dan, thanks for linking to my post about kids a...Hi Dan, thanks for linking to my post about kids advocating for change in their schools. If your readers are interested, they may want to check out the website for the Real Food Challenge (http://realfoodchallenge.org/), a wonderful organization run by youth for youth that's dedicated to improving access to fresh food on college campuses. Sorry for the PSA, but it's a nonprofit (& I'm not related to it in any way), so I figured you wouldn't mind.Cherylhttp://5secondrule.typepad.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-24914954280986262202010-03-21T09:14:39.083-07:002010-03-21T09:14:39.083-07:00My room mates would disagree with you. They buy wh...My room mates would disagree with you. They buy what they want,when they want it, and moan about the cost of food. When I've pointed out how much cheaper it is to buy fresh produce in season, and use it quickly and efficiently, they reply that opening a tin is much more efficient for them, as they haven't "the energy" to cook properly. They also have a very, very narrow range of tastes, which hampers them in eating inexpensively - soup, for example is "not real food", nor is a meatless meal satisfying. Folks like these will always claim that the food companies conspire to keep prices high and good nutrition out of range. For myself, I am armed with a few good cookbooks - "The More with Less" cookbook is the very first one I bought, more than thirty years ago, and they have helped me eat well and cheaply over the years. <br /><br />CarolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-1135060320608229552010-03-21T08:54:11.296-07:002010-03-21T08:54:11.296-07:00Thank you for the comments so far, and again for t...Thank you for the comments so far, and again for the civil discussion. <br /><br />I'm definitely interested in more thoughts from readers who <em>don't</em> agree with me. Are there sides of this conversation that I've missed so far?<br /><br />DKDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02388302796031288076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-49857483000672513842010-03-20T14:18:53.269-07:002010-03-20T14:18:53.269-07:00Very valid argument! I am also a big believer in t...Very valid argument! I am also a big believer in that as long as we try our best to choose healthy, then our actions will inevitable influence others around us and eventually, this will cause a ripple effect and we will one day see dramatic changes in the food industry. <br /><br />It is not so much about how much we can influence, as long as we are trying our best to do what we can within our power.Stephanie from Juicy Fresh Biteshttp://juicyfreshbites.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-46413079553465174582010-03-20T10:16:55.717-07:002010-03-20T10:16:55.717-07:00We are living proof that you can eat healthy on a ...We are living proof that you can eat healthy on a budget. I don't usually spend more than $65 a week on groceries for our family of four, and some weeks I can get away with spending only $50. It can be done with a little planning and effort, especially if you utilize "real" whole grains and cut out the processed garbage! Keep it up, CK! :o)Jaime @ Like a Bubbling Brookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02804356840081176564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-79123852474083375702010-03-20T09:40:17.491-07:002010-03-20T09:40:17.491-07:00I can totally get behind this idea. I would take i...I can totally get behind this idea. I would take it one step further, because I am bleeding heart liberal and all. We have the power to make choices for ourselves and the power to make life a little easier for our global human family. (Oh, and thank you for giving a shout out to my disdain for the belief that po' folk are powerless.)<br /><br />We need to change the farm bill. We need to make poor neighborhoods better with farmers markets and grocery stores etc., etc. I don't think that calling a spade a spade is whining, but I do agree that if you're not out there DOING something to remedy our jacked up food system, you should probably just shut it.ConsciouslyFrugalhttp://consciouslyfrugal.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-40391952746660033782010-03-20T08:47:03.649-07:002010-03-20T08:47:03.649-07:00I guess I don't see it as an either/or. I abs...I guess I don't see it as an either/or. I absolutely have power over my own decisions, and use that to make good food choices, actively support my local farmers, and avoid processed and packaged foods whenever possible. <br /><br />But that doesn't also mean that I therefore should stop calling out food companies for doing things I think are wrong or point out that there are places of powerlessness. Advocacy isn't the same as merely complaining. The danger in just acting individually without also talking up & highlighting bad practices is that awareness of the bad practices remains limited. And talking up the bad practices doesn't mean that I think these companies are "evil." <br /><br />I agree with both very-thought provoking posts about 95%. Just wanted to state some other POV's to get the dialogue going.Dianenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37886248.post-52077727626252694242010-03-20T04:13:02.168-07:002010-03-20T04:13:02.168-07:00Yes, yes, yes! I very much enjoyed reading your e...Yes, yes, yes! I very much enjoyed reading your earlier post, but felt you covered my opinions pretty well. Yet again, I agree, but alas, don't have a lot to add to the discussion.<br /><br />I would like to point out a wonderful non-profit that I volunteer for -- Share Our Strength/Operation Frontline. They recruit chefs and nutritionists to go into local (low-income) communities to teach about cooking, nutrition and food budgeting. It's a way to give power and education to those with limited means and/or education.Juliahttp://www.growcookeat.comnoreply@blogger.com